AC: Louis Dazy (@louisdazy)

The Faces of Csuri Auction: An Interview with Caroline Csuri

Nov 15, 202315 min read

In preparation for our inaugural "The Faces of Csuri" Auction on November 30, Tribul sat down with Caroline Csuri, the daughter of generative art pioneer and the "father of digital art and computer animation" Charles Csuri.

Alexia: Your father used computers to create works in a way that had never been done before. What led him to want to use this technology to make art?

Caroline: In the early days of my father's journey into computer art, he was part of a remarkable group of artists who helped shape the 1960s art scene. Among them were iconic figures such as Roy Lichtenstein, Franz Kline, Jackson Pollock, and George Segal. My father was also part of the Alan Kaprow happening movement. These artists would gather at the legendary Cedar Tavern in Greenwich Village and exchange revolutionary ideas. This left a profound impact on my father's artistic path. 

My father returned to Ohio State University to teach and to start a family. While he had exhibited his work as a fine artist in New York, he wanted to do something completely revolutionary that had not been done before. This longing for innovation led him to engage in conversations with a colleague, Jack Mitten, from Ohio State's engineering department. Their discussions often ventured into the realm of speculative ideas, from teaching a computer to speak a foreign language to envisioning the possibilities of artificial intelligence. These conversations, sometimes fueled by a few margaritas, were a reflection of their creative aspirations. However, the prevailing technological constraints of that era, marked by primitive hardware and an absence of software, presented significant challenges to realizing these visionary concepts.

His early experiments in computer art were marked by a commitment to transform his artistic expressions using the limited technology available during that time.

In 1963-1965 during these pioneering endeavors, my father created a series of line drawings with innovative alterations using an analogue computer device, which rendered the Bearded Men in 3D perspective for example. Additionally, he explored procedural drawings, a technique aimed at replicating the mechanization of a computer. This involved the meticulous creation of drawings of people, point by point, imitating the precision of a mechanical pen used in computer processes. 

My father's unique background, which included earning an engineering degree during his military service, endowed him with a blend of skills that bridged the worlds of fine art and engineering. This dual expertise played a pivotal role in shaping his journey into computer art, allowing him to merge art and technology in innovative ways.

A significant turning point in this journey occurred when my father encountered a research project at Ohio State University that demonstrated the potential of computer graphics. This project involved inputting grid coordinates of a woman's face into a computer, which, in turn, controlled an automatic typewriter capable of producing nine shades of gray in its output. Witnessing the possibilities of this interface ignited my father's enthusiasm, prompting him to enroll in a workshop on computer programming in Fortran. This pivotal step marked the inception of his involvement in shaping and developing the technology that would eventually lead to the emergence of computer art as a distinct artistic field.

My father's contributions in this realm were pioneering, and he later became the first artist in history to secure a grant from the National Science Foundation, a testament to the significance of his work. This financial support enabled him to engage in further research and development, collaborating with PhD students he funded across various disciplines, and making groundbreaking contributions to the field by developing innovative artistic tools and software from the ground up.

Sine Curve Man Two | 1967 | The Faces of Csuri Lot 2

A: How did your father harmonize the worlds of engineering and art in his exploration of computer art?

C: That was one of the reasons my father held Leonardo da Vinci in such high regard. In fact, many of his files were named 'Leo,' reflecting his belief in the importance of being an innovator, a problem solver, and an advocate for experimentation.

One of my father's remarkable talents was his ability to inspire individuals with a programming and engineering mind to think outside of the box and be able to work in a creative partnership.

Communicating visual concepts to those solely rooted in analytics could be a significant challenge. It fascinated me to witness how he was able to accomplish this.

I gained a glimpse into his collaborative approach during his memorial exhibit at Ohio State University when some of the programmers shared their experiences. They recounted how my father would approach them with ambitious ideas, such as creating a tool that would allow him to draw in 3D space. Their initial response was often skepticism, deeming it impossible. However, my father's unwavering conviction and encouragement would in time lead to them seeing things from his perspective. People were constantly trying to keep up with him because he was always moving on to the next thing, the next discovery. Their accounts painted a picture of a special and exciting time watching the field of computer-generated art evolve.

Jesters | 1988

A: Could you elaborate on how your father worked alongside the machines he employed to create his art? What role did these technological collaborators play in his creative process?

C: He utilized computers to realize his artistic visions. In the beginning, when there was only one computer on the entire campus and no software, the machine served as his sole means of artistic expression. During the initial phase, he collaborated creatively with coders to develop artistic software tools, drawing on their input. Subsequently, he fine-tuned the code and continued to work with his scripts.

What may not be apparent is that during those early days and throughout the generative art process, the outcome was not always immediately what he had predicted. It involved a journey of trial and error with labor-intensive mechanisms to calculate one picture overnight as he explored different approaches, and changed variables, to achieve his artistic vision. My father functioned as an editor. For example, when generating a series of image frames, he would provide instructions to the computer regarding shape, color, and object positioning. He would then also provide random parameters, giving the computer a role in the creative decision-making process.

He often referred to his computer as his “creative partner”; he had a relationship with the machine.

Unknown | Charles Csuri | ca 1971 📷

A: What objectives and aspirations did he want to pursue through his artworks?

C: As an artist, his primary objective was to convey the human element because he was concerned with the prevailing perception that computers were seen as sterile and dehumanized. To counter this, he embarked on pioneering efforts to reintroduce the human form into the world of computer-generated art, starting with figurative works.

His aim was to transform the human experience and imbue it with meaning through the medium of the computer.

Another aspiration that drove him was the pursuit of artistic endeavors that had never been achieved through conventional means. This desire for constant innovation made him very unique as an artist. We would joke about him using various aliases to explore diverse tools and styles. He rarely lingered in one style for an extended period. I once remarked, "Dad, where is the 'signature style' in all of this?" In contrast to artists restricted to a single style, my father relished the freedom to explore multiple styles as part of his research. I think what excited him was to be able to approach art with a fresh perspective, breaking new ground, and creating artwork that was different.

A: Was this approach a personal need for challenge and a desire to push his own artistic boundaries, or was it driven by the curiosity to explore the full extent of what could be accomplished with a computer?

C: I think it was a combination of both. His approach was shaped by a deep-rooted connection to fine art. He possessed an extensive understanding of artistic structure and visual relationships, drawing from his educational background. His teacher, who had studied alongside Renoir, further enriched his artistic knowledge. As a professor of art, he taught foundational skills like painting and drawing and was well-versed in art history, with a strong foundation in the principles of fine art.

While he was committed to upholding these fine art principles, he was also driven by the desire to expand upon them and introduce innovative elements. So, it can be seen as both a personal need for challenge and pushing his own artistic boundaries, as well as a profound curiosity to explore the limitless potential of the computer as a creative tool.

His journey as an artist often led him to revisit his artistic roots, which served as a foundation for his explorations.

Balancing Act | 2000

A: Your father once referred to his computer as the “magic black box of surprises.” What is the story behind this description?

C: My father had a deep fascination with magic, and he was quite skilled at performing magic tricks himself. Interestingly, his brother was a professional magician based in L.A., so you could say that magic ran in the family. I vividly recall the first time I met my uncle as a child; he pulled an egg from behind my ear, and I was absolutely captivated by the wonder of it all.

Magic was a significant part of my father's life, and he would often perform various card tricks and illusions. He believed that the element of surprise was integral to the sense of magic.

This sense of surprise, of not knowing what would happen next, held a profound allure for him.

When he referred to the computer as the 'magic black box of surprises,' he was drawing a connection between the enchantment of magic and the excitement he felt when exploring what the computer could reveal. He found a sense of wonder in the notion that the computer could unveil unexpected discoveries. As he worked on his code, he marveled at the lines of code flying across the screen, and then, like magic, transforming into captivating images. For my father, the computer was his 'magic black box of surprises,' but he also referred to it as his ‘playground’.

A: What was it like growing up with your dad?

C: My dad was not only a man of remarkable achievements but also a truly remarkable person. He was loving, kind, generous, and encouraging. Despite his numerous accomplishments, he remained exceptionally humble, always ready to acknowledge the contributions of others. My father's humility was paired with a unique combination of idealism and a demanding nature.

His idealism led him to expect the best from himself and those around him. He was a perfectionist, always striving for the highest standards in his work and in the work of those he mentored. It was this aspect of his personality that instilled a sense of strength and determination in me. From a young age, I felt that there was no challenge too great, no aspiration too lofty. I became a risk-taker, embarking on a journey working in Europe at a young age, becoming an entrepreneur with my own business, and eventually venturing back into the art world. My father's influence encouraged me to pursue my dreams even when the path seemed uncertain.

His unshakable belief in the importance of his work and the power of determination was inspiring.

He faced challenges and frustration when others could not see his vision, but he remained steadfast in his conviction that his work was too significant to be ignored.

He instilled that same belief in me, and it became a driving force in my own journey.

My father's patience was another remarkable trait. He had an extraordinary capacity for patience, often demonstrated in simple acts like peeling a yellow apple in one continuous strip. His patience extended beyond the mundane to his artistic endeavors and collaborations. He was ahead of his time, practicing mindfulness long before it became a popular concept.

He was also my coach for volleyball and track, and he would often run alongside me during my training. This closeness extended to my involvement in his artistic pursuits. I would visit him when I returned from Europe, witnessing the evolution of his work and engaging in in-depth discussions about his creative process. I was the one who produced most of his art objects.  That was a fantastic experience.

A: Your face lights up when you talk about your father.

C: The world was a better place with him. It has been quite a journey, and I miss him terribly. But the fact that his spirit lives on through his art and that I can now help tell the story and promote his legacy gives me comfort and purpose. I know that what he did is significant and it will continue to be analyzed 50 years from now. The more I investigate what he did, the more I realize its complexity.

Speaking with curators, they say it will take years before anybody truly understands the magnitude of what the founding fathers and mothers of this art movement accomplished.

Caroline | 1989

A: If there was one question you wish you had asked him, what would it be?

C: It is a tough question because there are so many things, I would like to ask him. If I had to narrow it down, I would be particularly interested in learning more about his work Random War. Specifically, I would like to know the significance of the names he chose to include in this piece. I would also like to know if he ever created alternative generative versions of the soldiers' names, which is unique given his tendency to produce multiple renditions of his works, and each plotter without names had varying positions of the soldiers.

I would also like to learn more about his experiences at the Cybernetic Serendipity exhibition, a groundbreaking event that took place in London in 1968 curated and organized by Jasia Reichardt. This exhibition marked the first-ever fusion of art and technology during that era and was regarded as nothing short of revolutionary.  During the exhibit, someone was controlling the movement of objects on a screen by pedaling a bicycle. My father sat on the bicycle and started to peddle it backward. This act just showed so much of his mindset. I would have loved to gain a deeper understanding of what it was like working alongside other pioneering artists and creatives in that era. While my father shared anecdotes about his interactions with Roy Lichtenstein, I wish I could have had more in-depth conversations about his encounters with other influential figures in the field.

A: Hummingbird is recognized as one of the earliest computer-animated films. What significance does it hold in the history of computer-generated art and animation?

It stands as the inaugural computer-generated character animation, a groundbreaking achievement in its time. Crafting the Hummingbird required an intricate process, with 30,000 punch cards and 25 sequences of movement meticulously assembled.

In the history of computer-generated art and animation, it holds tremendous significance as one of the earliest creations.

Hummingbird II | 1967

C: Hummingbirds have a new meaning for you since your father’s passing, what can you tell us about this?

I believe that the hummingbird is my family symbol. They are fierce fighters like my father and they represent hope, spirit, and beauty. I felt that after my father passed, he came back in an animal spirit. There were instances, especially when deeply engaged in continuing his legacy and revisiting my upbringing amidst this movement, that I would be overcome with emotion. In one such moment, while working on my laptop by the window, a hummingbird appeared, hovering and gazing directly at me. This occurrence recurred during challenging times, and I interpreted it as my father's way of encouraging strength and hope.

A: You have said that earlier in his life, your father expressed the effects of the war solely through his art, and only later in life began to openly discuss its impact.  What do you think led to this shift?

C: Over the years, I kept nudging him because I believed it was essential for the younger generation to understand the sacrifices made to uphold democracy and protect people's freedom from persecution. However, the experiences of war were so horrible and painful for him that he could not talk about it for a long time. It was not until later in life that he met a fellow soldier from the same foxhole, a businessman, and they began discussing their war experiences together. This proved to be a therapeutic outlet for him, having someone who had lived through those challenging times to share the burden.

Furthermore, a testament to my father's strength lies in his enduring relationship with my mother. Married for 70 years, my father called my mother “the goddess of love and beauty”, they were soul mates. After her passing, ESPN interviewed him for Veterans Day, where, for the first time, he openly shared what the war was truly like—his experiences and the lessons learned. Such events shape one's character and worldview, and in my father's case, it directed his focus toward the important things in life.

Frame 0119, sol series | ca 2006

A: Your father's piece Random War depicts text at the top and soldiers at the bottom, offering a veteran's perspective on war while also acknowledging the prevalent perception at that time that computers were evil. Can you share the story behind this work, including how it was made, the significance of its size, and the names your father chose to feature?

C: It was one of the first conceptual pieces of art. My father actually did a number of conceptual pieces before it was known as conceptual art in the 60s. It was a commentary on the randomness of life, death, and war.

At that time, computers were considered to be evil.

He even drew a devil with a punch card in his hand in the 60s, which we published in a book. The computer, he believed, held the ultimate power, playing God with a random number generator, determining who's missing in action, who's wounded, who's surviving, who has Medals of Honor, and who's dead—all in a split second. If you were to run that program several times, you'd have a different outcome within a split second.

In some respects, it was a war protest, created during the Vietnam War. It was also a commentary on war in general, highlighting how anyone, regardless of their status, could be a victim of the impact of war. The significance of its size was to show the magnitude of reading the names of fallen soldiers on a wall during wartime. 

The names he chose to feature in the piece were reflective of the 60s. He included figures like James Bond, Arnold Palmer, The Kennedys, The Rockefellers, Roy Lichtenstein, George Segal, Allen Kaprow and even professors and administrators from Ohio State University. It was a snapshot of the 60s, capturing the cultural and political milieu of that time.

Random War | 1967

A: Considering your father's achievements as an athlete, professor, and artist, what do you think he would most want to be remembered for?

C: I actually posed that question to him, and he expressed a deep desire to be remembered as a good husband and a good father. However, when considering his legacy, he was passionate about having this artistic movement acknowledged as a pivotal development in art history, akin to movements like pop art, cubism, and expressionism.

He aspired to see museums and people across the globe recognizing this movement as a significant force that transformed our perception of the world.

Additionally, he hoped to be recognized as a great artist and that he was pivotal in spearheading the movement that would ultimately open doors for the following generations of digital artists. 

In the past, he often discussed the challenges of dealing with the art establishment. Fortunately, with the advent of the internet, the NFT space, and the myriad opportunities they offer, the landscape has become more accessible and level for artists.

A: Your father was deeply frustrated by the art establishment. What was this view based on and how did this influence his artistic approach?

C: During his time in New York, my father grew profoundly frustrated with the political landscape within the art world. He faced some discouraging experiences, such as a particular gallery that initially would not even consider seeing him. In response, he threw all the photos of his works down on the gallery floor and left in frustration.  After, they contacted him to offer a one-man show.

He felt disheartened by the necessity of playing the political game in the art world at that point in his life, as he had a desire to start a family. This led him to make the pivotal decision to return to Ohio and continue his career as a teacher, believing that he could make a more substantial impact there. 

I think the timing was just not right for him. Nobody knew about or understood computer-generated art. This led to my father not being taken seriously.  As a result, he chose to direct his energy towards advancing the field, carrying out extensive research, producing art, and exploring opportunities beyond the university setting.

Mask of Fear | 1989 | The Faces of Csuri Lot 6

A: In 1967, your father received a response from the editor of ARTFORUM magazine, stating that they couldn't envision a special issue on electronic or computer art. Years later, the 50th-anniversary special edition of ARTFORUM would feature computer art. How did your father react to this remarkable shift in perspective within the art world?

C: The fact that my father preserved that rejection letter from ARTFORUM magazine is a significant testament to his attitude and spirit. Instead of being disheartened, he found it to be a source of motivation, a reminder that he needed to prove them wrong. He was determined to show that nothing could deter him – not even rejection letters.

The art world might have considered his computer art crazy at the time, but he remained resolute. He knew deep within himself that what he was doing was profoundly important.

Later on, my father found it quite amusing that the art world had suddenly embraced computer art as if it were a groundbreaking revelation. He quipped that it had taken them over 50 years to finally take it seriously.

ARTFORUM's Rejection Letter to Charles Csuri | 1967

A: What was your father's reaction when he learned about NFTs?

C: When he first learned about NFTs, he expressed concerns that many people, regardless of their artistic background, were using NFTs as a means to quickly profit from their creations. He found this aspect of the NFT space to be somewhat crass and disheartening.

However, as he became more acquainted with the potential benefits of NFTs, especially regarding provenance and the broader recognition of digital art, his perspective began to shift. He started to see the positive side of NFTs and their role in highlighting talented artists. Over time, he became more hopeful about the NFT space, particularly as he witnessed visionary artists emerging in this new artistic landscape.

It came down to the fact that once people began making substantial profits with NFTs, the art world took notice. The financial success associated with it played a pivotal role in gaining recognition. Suddenly, galleries were looking at it, realizing its significance, and delving into the world of NFTs. My father found this shift interesting, particularly the emergence of a community that drew attention to digital art and the broader artistic movement. He was genuinely excited about the collaborative spirit within this community. Moreover, he maintained a keen interest in the potential of AI, a field he foresaw early on. However, he emphasized the importance of using AI responsibly and avoiding the duplication of existing artworks by other artists.

The Face of Change | 2021

A: Tribul will hold an auction featuring 10 of your father's works, marking the largest single-artist auction of his creations. Given that these physical works will also have digital representations and be permanently recorded on the blockchain, what would your father have thought about this convergence of traditional and digital art?

C: He would have found it fantastic. The auction, led by Tribul and co-curated with Georg Bak, has impressively showcased a diverse range of my father's works, creating a significant and well-told narrative.

He would be wildly excited about the sense of permanency made possible by the blockchain and also the level of provenance that the NFT provides.

I also know that he would want to have a tangible art object to go along with it, seeing it as the perfect marriage of both worlds.

A: What was the process of selecting which pieces would be included in the exhibition?

C: Georg Bak proposed the theme of Faces, and his keen observation, along with the input from Margit Rosen from the ZKM Museum, highlighted that my father was rare among the pioneers exploring figurative work in the generative space. The choice of theme is significant because it delves into the human aspect of my father’s work.

He was always searching for meaning in everything he created.

He once had a solo exhibition of his works titled In Search of Meaning.  
I have come across numerous writings where he questions, "Why do I do what I do? What am I doing here? What am I searching for?" He always was questioning himself in terms of what he was trying to achieve, and what he was trying to convey. He was always searching for the humanity in everything that he did. So, I definitely think that this is a great compilation capturing not just technological progress but also the emotional depth and transformative journey he sought throughout his career.

📷 Caroline Csuri | Charles Csuri Notes | date unknown

A: Did his understanding of the purpose of his work change over time?

C: I believe he consistently sought to understand the purpose of his work, engaging in a constant dialogue with himself through his experimentation. In his paper, "Ramblings of a Feverish Mind," he delves into this self-reflection, exploring the meaning and uniqueness he aimed to convey and how to communicate that significance to the viewer.

A: Bearded Men, one of the pieces that will be available in the Tribul auction, presents distorted variations of the same face using a computer plotter. How does this work capture your father’s exploration of the theme of transformation that recurs throughout his work?

C: In 1963, he experimented with transforming the human form, initiating this exploration with early plotter works such as Sine Curve Man. Bearded Men stands out as one of the initial instances of the generative process. While not every image he created was generative—though most were—Bearded Men vividly illustrates transformations by presenting 12 distinct versions of the same face. This artwork encapsulates his exhilaration and astonishment at each iteration's transformation, unfolding on a twelve-foot scale as it emerged from the plotter.

I think that the transformative process, reflected in the artwork, parallels the theme of personal transformation and growth in his own life. His focus on the human spirit and the potential for individuals to evolve, learn, and elevate their lives is evident.

The complexity and emotional depth of his work also mirror the various facets of his own personality.

Transformation, represented through the generative process, becomes a metaphor for the changes inherent in life. Embracing change and movement, he viewed each generative image as an instance in time, a snapshot of the creative moment. The Bearded Men plotter stands out as a prime example of this recurring theme in his body of work.

The Bearded Man was crafted in tandem with Artist to Frog. My dad had a unique sense of the ridiculous in his personality. Artist to Frog, an animated artwork in which the same bearded man transforms into a frog, is a prime example. A lighthearted touch is also evident in an image he created of a bee on a hang glider. His humor and fun-loving nature were remarkable.

Bearded Men Plotter | 1966 | The Faces of Csuri Lot 1

A: Douglas Davis, who was a renowned art critic, referred to Sine Curve Man as a "complex blend of reality and mathematics that had a strange emotional power." How do you interpret the emotional resonance of this work, and what feelings do you think your father aimed to convey?

C: Sine Curve Man, which I often consider my father's avatar, embodies a dichotomy between the human and the synthetic, blending analytical code with multi-dimensional emotion.

Through layered iterations of the sine curve, he sought to convey depth—a push and pull between analytical logic and emotional spirit.

After his passing, witnessing Sine Curve Man at auction on white plexi, reflecting on the floor, invoked a powerful emotional resonance. People gathered around, moved to tears, sensing his spirit—an inexplicable and mesmerizing experience for my daughter and me. It was unlike other works, lit on screens, as none of them reflected on the floor, leading curators and observers to wonder how this was possible.

Sine Curve Man | 1967

A: What are your feelings when you see the Buffalo AKG Art Museum acquiring and recognizing the significance of your father's work, Sine Curve Man?

C: It is incredibly satisfying. I feel like he is finally receiving the recognition that would bring him immense joy. While he was acknowledged in various fields, being recognized in the art world and reaching a broader audience through this movement is truly exciting. It provides me with comfort, knowing that his legacy will endure.

A: Caroline, I asked earlier what achievements your father would most want to be remembered for. I turn this question over to you now. What would you like him to be remembered for?

C: I would like him to be remembered as a great man, a phenomenal person. Additionally, I want him to be celebrated for his kindness, generosity, and his commitment to helping others achieve their goals. His impact is evident in the 40-plus Ph.D. students he mentored, each going on to create their own legacies in their fields. His work spanned various disciplines such as neuroscience, aerospace, the Air Force, engineering, and medical imaging.

As the ultimate educator, he fostered a tremendous sense of intellectual curiosity, bringing people together and making a lasting difference, not only as an artist but as a pioneer in the visual arts.

Unknown | Charles Csuri | ca 2010 📷

Caroline Csuri, a versatile artist, entrepreneur, and daughter of American computer art pioneer Charles Csuri (@CharlesCsuri), hails from a family deeply rooted in the arts. With a degree in Art Education and Computer Graphics from Ohio State University, she collaborated closely with her father for three decades, contributing significantly to the production of his art objects. Following Charles Csuri's passing in 2021, Caroline assumed the role of head at CsuriVision Ltd., dedicating herself to preserving and promoting her father's legacy. Beyond her artistic endeavors, Caroline has excelled in diverse fields, including sports, modeling, digital art, and interior design, showcasing a multifaceted and dynamic creative spirit.

Alexia Wright (@PepaDot) is the Head of Social Media and Marketing at Tribul, combining her passion for art with her expertise in content creation, community management, and stakeholder relations. Alexia holds a Master of Arts degree and has extensive leadership experience. She enjoys keeping her pulse on the latest art news and trends in web3.